Always thought provoking, Chloe: I'm imagining each of us, the same as we were as children, sitting atop a slowly growing mound of dead things - cells (as you've talked about before) and moments and the other detritus of life - there we are on top, the same, if perhaps taller, with a slightly better view.
That's such an interesting image, thank you, Troy. I don't think I'm much taller, personally, but I certainly resonate with there being a mountain of 'things gone' at my back (or under my feet). A mountain which I'll one day join. 💜
This comment contains Death and references to animal slaughter.
Beautiful writing, as always. I can relate to that "shift in intensity" when Death is near. I, too, had a rabbit, several in fact, that I awoke to find stiff as a board. Growing up, I lived on a hobby farm. Many of my friends had farms, too. Death seemed ever-present. Baby sparrows fell from rafters, chickens keeled over, sheep were sent to slaughter, horses needed to be put down, etc. One of my formative memories involves walking through a slaughterhouse with my mom. She had to drop off a check or something, and to get to the office, we had to walk past the slaughterhouse floor. At the time, I accepted it as a normal part of life that animals died and we ate them—that was how it went. Seeing it up close, though, really pulled back the veil. I appreciated that no one tried to hide or sugarcoat it from me, but that "shift in intensity" nonetheless stuck with me. As a teenager, I became a vegetarian. Today, I'm mostly vegan. *Mostly* because I shoot with film, which is negligible, and I'm not too fussed about minor infractions, like occasional honey or if there's real butter in something someone provided for me to eat. It's just not the end of the world.
It's beautiful how you describe the response to Death as balletic and how a river of reverence flows under everything. I feel that. I also perceive that Death is often orchestrated and conducted in ways we regularly overlook, either because it's too painful to look at or we're not attuned. Being in touch with Death feels like a necessity, though, if we are to really Live and value life, all life.
Thank you for continuing to provide space to talk about this topic, which you do with so much openness and grace.
Thank you, Al, and I echo Danette's sentiments & appreciate your forewarning 🙏
I appreciate you speaking to the Death of animals in slaughterhouses in relation to the intensity. I have a lot of thoughts around our cultural relationship to Death and how it it plays into the value which is placed on various lives, probably too much for a comment, but yes - Death, particularly in a context where the magnitude of the moment cannot be attuned to, can bring all sorts of intensity to the fore...
I imagined you'd be familiar with the river, as I picture it. I feel as though your photography speaks to it. I should have specified, perhaps, that not all manner of Deaths will facilitate or offer an invitation to it. There are so many ways in, and so many things that will act as barriers.
"Being in touch with Death feels like a necessity, though, if we are to really Live and value life, all life." I very much share that belief. Thanks again, Al.
"I have a lot of thoughts around our cultural relationship to Death and how it plays into the value which is placed on various lives, probably too much for a comment..."
Same. Like the river, my feelings about non-human lives, especially, and the value we assign to them are *right* beneath the surface. They can't help but gurgle up sometimes. ❤️
I just adore your beloved's response. "You are not in charge of my art" is a much more honest way telling you exactly how he feels. You have to respect that.
"Birds, too, offer portals to this place. They are themselves invitations to momentarily let go of the struggle and, instead, slip into the clear waters of attunement."
I can still feel my jaw dropping when I think about, and then having absolutely zero response to him, rightly, pointing out that I'm not in charge of his art. The mans a genius...
"We are all still the children we once were. Observant, curious, defiant, terrified." Just so. And as we age it becomes more and more manifest. The older I become, though, I find I am less observant, less curious, definitely less defiant. I wish I could hang on to those child-like qualities ! Instead, it seems I am keeping mostly the confusion and the fears. A very thoughtful post, Ms. Hope. Your flight is far from aimless.
Sharron, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I find myself wondering in what ways your curiosity does still show up for you, even though it has lessened...
Confusion and fear are just as valid as curiosity and defiance, I believe. They all serve a purpose.
My flight feels a little aimless at the moment, but the season is changing, so, who knows... Again, I appreciate you sharing.
There are so many memories and accompanied feelings that so often flash across my mind from childhood that it’s hard to forget that in so many ways I’m still that curious, scared, exited kid.
I can distinctly remember coming across the bodies of dead animals when I was younger, birds, lizards, rabbits and I always felt kinda weird by how fascinating they were too me - I felt as if I shouldn’t look for too long even though I couldn’t help but look away. Your story about the rabbit reminded me of those moments.
And by the way “your not in charge of my art” was hilarious!
Thank you, Michael, for reading and for sharing. It's so interesting, how most of us absolutely share that impulse, but feel some cultural shame around it (I assume it's cultural?). I took a class in Forensic Anthropology when I was in college and was absolutely in my element. Studying rates of decay, blood spatter, bones fragments etc. was so fascinating, and it was nice to be in an environment where it was very much ok to be interested in it all.
I was just saying to Nathan that I think David's response belongs in a museum. Rarely am I rendered speechless...
Yeah I guess it’s a cultural thing, I mean, whenever I’d come across a dead animal on my own I found myself starring at it way longer than when I came across one when I was with others. So for me, at least, it felt like a part of it was being concerned I’d freak people out by staring at the dead thing too long.
That’s sounds like an amazing class to have taken!
Beautiful as always, and a delicate slowness elicited through listening to this (this time on the train on the way to work rather than the way home) whilst reading.
I love David's response 😊
There's a quote in the book I'm reading that mentioned both death and birds in a paragraph and I thought of you. I need to dig it up later and place it here.
Aug 28, 2023·edited Aug 28, 2023Liked by Chloe Hope
Me?! Couldn't possibly know to what you are referring! ;) (I'm still double-taking on the whole thing, glowing, and then duly following up with internal slices of imposter syndrome 🙃)
Hope those pastries were a tastry. (It sounds better when I say that out loud...)
Glad you enjoyed the directionality. I'm writing this at my desk in the mere moments before I depart my office to make the return journey. I can hear the loose chinking of someone in the kitchenette down the corridor. The day has been incredibly mild, a pure sapphire sky laced with the merest wisps of ... *oh, wait, I'm meant to be writing a quote from a book...*
So yeah that quote. It's Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun. The entire thing is quotable. I've laced every page with pencil. Here's the snippet. The protagonist is within a dreamlike place; a vast botanical garden that houses rooms of different themes, tardis-like in their expanse. In this room, he has found himself at a dark lake in an infinite fen, where many people are said to be submerged within its waters. He comes across a man who happens to be there.
I asked why it was called the Lake of Birds.
"Because so many's found dead in the water, is what some say. But it might only be that that's because there's so many here. There's a great deal said against Death. I mean by the people that has to die, drawin' her picture like a crone with a sack, and all that. But she's a good friend to birds, Death is. Wherever there's dead men and quiet, you'll find a good many birds, that's been my experience."
I’m glad you’re feeling the glow, it’s well deserved, and you very much belong in there ☺️ The pastry was tastry (totally worked), made all the more delicious by its celebratory nature.
I always appreciate your generosity in scene-painting. I recently learnt that some people don’t see images in their heads 🤯 (also that not everyone thinks days of the week have colours associated with them 🤯 again) and was genuinely mind-blown.
Your book sounds wonderful, I’d quite like to read it myself. The Lake of Birds… The man who happens to be there is right, whenever I’m at the churchyard there are always young Magpies, happily perched on headstones. And crows, and plentiful other smaller birds. They really add to the serenity of the place.
THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE AN INTERNAL MONOLOGUE! 🤯🤯🤯
Apparrently, aphantasia and anaduralia go hand in hand.
:) Happy to have shared. A small return in exchange for your sharing of 'Thom Pain'.
I will likely write up some sort of review/thought-dump on the book once I've finished it. I do not yet understand/know where it is leading, even as I approach the end of the first book. But--and here I shuffle in my seat, glancing to where it sits by my side--I think I have fallen for Gene's prose and tale most deeply.
THEN WHAT IS HAPPENING INSIDE THEIR HEADS??? 😱 It’s just so wild how different one person to the nexts experience of the world can be so different... thank you for giving me new words!!
I’m having to hear of your falling, it’s so lovely to find a series and to be taken by it. I very much look forward to reading your review.
Very glad you did. It was very pertinent to your post, but I also particularly like to witness how we change, or not, and who was the child of the adult I am now connecting with.
We are still all the children we once were. I’m obsessed with this idea, and I write from this place a lot, this “older man looking back at the child he was, and recognizing that not much has changed, except perhaps a clearer understanding of things has been gained” state of mind.
I really do think it's writ large through all of us, whether we care to see it, or not. And I think it makes life nicer, especially for the people around us, when we're able to see it, and work with it. I'm looking forward to reading some of your work, Andrei!
Oh, I’d be honored! I’ve been wanting yo really get into your work for a while, but only now found the time. Your newsletter is wonderful. I can’t wait to read more.
I have missed you and your writing. Stress and busy-ness and a feeling of being a little too simple to engage with the highly intellectual and insightful folks here on Substack (of which you are the most prime example) led to a long break from reading or writing anything on this platform. This was the perfect reintroduction for me. As usual, I love every word. My soul feels stirred, my brain feels gently prodded into wakefulness, my heart feels tingly and curious💚
Hannah, it’s so lovely to see your name. I’ve missed you. I certainly hope to see you writing again, your writing is just as brilliant and insightful as anything else on here and I think the world needs your voice in it. I know life can get in the way of it all. I’ve been feeling that, too, hence the slower pace of things around here. But I think it’s worth it to get some words down when we can. Stories seem more important than ever, right now. I hope you and all your little ones are doing well 💜
Thank you so much, Chloe, that means a lot coming from you! My husband tries to tell me the same thing, but sometimes I think he's too biased to have a valid opinion on the matter haha. And I agree, stories are so important right now. Always and forever, but especially right now.
Listen to me and your husband! Haha, seriously though Hannah, if you feel moved I hope you get some words down. I certainly look forward to reading them, whenever you do.
Sep 8, 2023·edited Sep 15, 2023Liked by Chloe Hope
New subscriber here. I was captivated by the title "Death and Birds" and just subscribed because the two things have occupied my random musings lately.
It seems that recent studies have indicated that many birds live far longer than previously thought (something I always suspected). While there is great diversity of species, each with its own characteristics, some, at least, don't age like mammals. The limitations on their lifespans are due to the fact that being a bird is dangerous business. To generalize, there's a fall-out rate of about 10% a year from flying accidents, disease, and predation - the leading causes of death among birds. If they avoid these things, some species can live 30, 50, 70, or even 100 years. Their capacity to reproduce doesn't seem to be affected, by age, either. Might this mean that, in some sense, they are immortal?
I know better, of course, but I kind of hoped so, and that is the child inside me, daydreaming and yearning for a secure place in the universe.
Danno, hello, thank you for joining, it's good to have you here. It's fascinating how little we really know about Birds, isn't it? It seems to be a bit of a trap of modern day, to fall into thinking that we've achieved peak knowledge, when that's far from the truth.
I don't know about immortality, I can't help but wonder if immortality might actually be something of a curse, but I certainly think that left to their own devices Birds can live extraordinary lives. I think we all inherently have a secure place in the universe, even when it doesn't feel like it...
Thank you again for being here, and for sharing some of your musings.
Defiant to the last breath, to live, not to conform. I had a similar experience but in my case it was a hamster and a few years later they built a street and the meadow was no more.
Always thought provoking, Chloe: I'm imagining each of us, the same as we were as children, sitting atop a slowly growing mound of dead things - cells (as you've talked about before) and moments and the other detritus of life - there we are on top, the same, if perhaps taller, with a slightly better view.
That's such an interesting image, thank you, Troy. I don't think I'm much taller, personally, but I certainly resonate with there being a mountain of 'things gone' at my back (or under my feet). A mountain which I'll one day join. 💜
haha Well a little taller than the little blonde cherub you were... ::))
🥰 True, I've got a couple of feet on her now :)
This comment contains Death and references to animal slaughter.
Beautiful writing, as always. I can relate to that "shift in intensity" when Death is near. I, too, had a rabbit, several in fact, that I awoke to find stiff as a board. Growing up, I lived on a hobby farm. Many of my friends had farms, too. Death seemed ever-present. Baby sparrows fell from rafters, chickens keeled over, sheep were sent to slaughter, horses needed to be put down, etc. One of my formative memories involves walking through a slaughterhouse with my mom. She had to drop off a check or something, and to get to the office, we had to walk past the slaughterhouse floor. At the time, I accepted it as a normal part of life that animals died and we ate them—that was how it went. Seeing it up close, though, really pulled back the veil. I appreciated that no one tried to hide or sugarcoat it from me, but that "shift in intensity" nonetheless stuck with me. As a teenager, I became a vegetarian. Today, I'm mostly vegan. *Mostly* because I shoot with film, which is negligible, and I'm not too fussed about minor infractions, like occasional honey or if there's real butter in something someone provided for me to eat. It's just not the end of the world.
It's beautiful how you describe the response to Death as balletic and how a river of reverence flows under everything. I feel that. I also perceive that Death is often orchestrated and conducted in ways we regularly overlook, either because it's too painful to look at or we're not attuned. Being in touch with Death feels like a necessity, though, if we are to really Live and value life, all life.
Thank you for continuing to provide space to talk about this topic, which you do with so much openness and grace.
Thank you, Al, and I echo Danette's sentiments & appreciate your forewarning 🙏
I appreciate you speaking to the Death of animals in slaughterhouses in relation to the intensity. I have a lot of thoughts around our cultural relationship to Death and how it it plays into the value which is placed on various lives, probably too much for a comment, but yes - Death, particularly in a context where the magnitude of the moment cannot be attuned to, can bring all sorts of intensity to the fore...
I imagined you'd be familiar with the river, as I picture it. I feel as though your photography speaks to it. I should have specified, perhaps, that not all manner of Deaths will facilitate or offer an invitation to it. There are so many ways in, and so many things that will act as barriers.
"Being in touch with Death feels like a necessity, though, if we are to really Live and value life, all life." I very much share that belief. Thanks again, Al.
"I have a lot of thoughts around our cultural relationship to Death and how it plays into the value which is placed on various lives, probably too much for a comment..."
Same. Like the river, my feelings about non-human lives, especially, and the value we assign to them are *right* beneath the surface. They can't help but gurgle up sometimes. ❤️
I hear you ♥️
Thank you for your trigger warning
It is really such a sensitive and thoughtful thing to do, especially for a comment
While I didn't read your comment, I appreciate you taking care of me 💛
No problem, Danette ❤️
I just adore your beloved's response. "You are not in charge of my art" is a much more honest way telling you exactly how he feels. You have to respect that.
Oh, I do! Nothing has ever shut me up so quickly & I fell in love with him all over again for it.
His young-self is alive and well & it's a joy to be around.
"Birds, too, offer portals to this place. They are themselves invitations to momentarily let go of the struggle and, instead, slip into the clear waters of attunement."
So eloquently put...
Thank you, my love
I do love the spider on the duvet story ❤️
I can still feel my jaw dropping when I think about, and then having absolutely zero response to him, rightly, pointing out that I'm not in charge of his art. The mans a genius...
"We are all still the children we once were. Observant, curious, defiant, terrified." Just so. And as we age it becomes more and more manifest. The older I become, though, I find I am less observant, less curious, definitely less defiant. I wish I could hang on to those child-like qualities ! Instead, it seems I am keeping mostly the confusion and the fears. A very thoughtful post, Ms. Hope. Your flight is far from aimless.
Sharron, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I find myself wondering in what ways your curiosity does still show up for you, even though it has lessened...
Confusion and fear are just as valid as curiosity and defiance, I believe. They all serve a purpose.
My flight feels a little aimless at the moment, but the season is changing, so, who knows... Again, I appreciate you sharing.
So impressed and touched by the ‘The delicate, almost balletic, way’ with which you write. Thank you, I love you.
Hey thanks, I love you too ♥️
Beautiful piece Chloe.
There are so many memories and accompanied feelings that so often flash across my mind from childhood that it’s hard to forget that in so many ways I’m still that curious, scared, exited kid.
I can distinctly remember coming across the bodies of dead animals when I was younger, birds, lizards, rabbits and I always felt kinda weird by how fascinating they were too me - I felt as if I shouldn’t look for too long even though I couldn’t help but look away. Your story about the rabbit reminded me of those moments.
And by the way “your not in charge of my art” was hilarious!
Thanks Chloe.
Thank you, Michael, for reading and for sharing. It's so interesting, how most of us absolutely share that impulse, but feel some cultural shame around it (I assume it's cultural?). I took a class in Forensic Anthropology when I was in college and was absolutely in my element. Studying rates of decay, blood spatter, bones fragments etc. was so fascinating, and it was nice to be in an environment where it was very much ok to be interested in it all.
I was just saying to Nathan that I think David's response belongs in a museum. Rarely am I rendered speechless...
Yeah I guess it’s a cultural thing, I mean, whenever I’d come across a dead animal on my own I found myself starring at it way longer than when I came across one when I was with others. So for me, at least, it felt like a part of it was being concerned I’d freak people out by staring at the dead thing too long.
That’s sounds like an amazing class to have taken!
Ohh yes, it’s an incredible response.
Totally. Weirdness risking exile and all that...
Beautiful as always, and a delicate slowness elicited through listening to this (this time on the train on the way to work rather than the way home) whilst reading.
I love David's response 😊
There's a quote in the book I'm reading that mentioned both death and birds in a paragraph and I thought of you. I need to dig it up later and place it here.
Wait, is this...? I'm sorry, but, are you...THE Nathan Slake? Of Substack Reads fame?!
☺️ Thank you for letting me know you listened, Nathan, and your directionality - you know how I like to form a picture!
I truly feel that David's response belongs in a museum. And I'm very curious to read that quote, and to find out what it is that you're reading...
Me?! Couldn't possibly know to what you are referring! ;) (I'm still double-taking on the whole thing, glowing, and then duly following up with internal slices of imposter syndrome 🙃)
Hope those pastries were a tastry. (It sounds better when I say that out loud...)
Glad you enjoyed the directionality. I'm writing this at my desk in the mere moments before I depart my office to make the return journey. I can hear the loose chinking of someone in the kitchenette down the corridor. The day has been incredibly mild, a pure sapphire sky laced with the merest wisps of ... *oh, wait, I'm meant to be writing a quote from a book...*
So yeah that quote. It's Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun. The entire thing is quotable. I've laced every page with pencil. Here's the snippet. The protagonist is within a dreamlike place; a vast botanical garden that houses rooms of different themes, tardis-like in their expanse. In this room, he has found himself at a dark lake in an infinite fen, where many people are said to be submerged within its waters. He comes across a man who happens to be there.
I asked why it was called the Lake of Birds.
"Because so many's found dead in the water, is what some say. But it might only be that that's because there's so many here. There's a great deal said against Death. I mean by the people that has to die, drawin' her picture like a crone with a sack, and all that. But she's a good friend to birds, Death is. Wherever there's dead men and quiet, you'll find a good many birds, that's been my experience."
I’m glad you’re feeling the glow, it’s well deserved, and you very much belong in there ☺️ The pastry was tastry (totally worked), made all the more delicious by its celebratory nature.
I always appreciate your generosity in scene-painting. I recently learnt that some people don’t see images in their heads 🤯 (also that not everyone thinks days of the week have colours associated with them 🤯 again) and was genuinely mind-blown.
Your book sounds wonderful, I’d quite like to read it myself. The Lake of Birds… The man who happens to be there is right, whenever I’m at the churchyard there are always young Magpies, happily perched on headstones. And crows, and plentiful other smaller birds. They really add to the serenity of the place.
Thank you for sharing that, Nathan 🙏
THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE AN INTERNAL MONOLOGUE! 🤯🤯🤯
Apparrently, aphantasia and anaduralia go hand in hand.
:) Happy to have shared. A small return in exchange for your sharing of 'Thom Pain'.
I will likely write up some sort of review/thought-dump on the book once I've finished it. I do not yet understand/know where it is leading, even as I approach the end of the first book. But--and here I shuffle in my seat, glancing to where it sits by my side--I think I have fallen for Gene's prose and tale most deeply.
THEN WHAT IS HAPPENING INSIDE THEIR HEADS??? 😱 It’s just so wild how different one person to the nexts experience of the world can be so different... thank you for giving me new words!!
I’m having to hear of your falling, it’s so lovely to find a series and to be taken by it. I very much look forward to reading your review.
Very glad you did. It was very pertinent to your post, but I also particularly like to witness how we change, or not, and who was the child of the adult I am now connecting with.
Wow Chloe, beautifully done
Thank you, Liam 🙏
We are still all the children we once were. I’m obsessed with this idea, and I write from this place a lot, this “older man looking back at the child he was, and recognizing that not much has changed, except perhaps a clearer understanding of things has been gained” state of mind.
I really do think it's writ large through all of us, whether we care to see it, or not. And I think it makes life nicer, especially for the people around us, when we're able to see it, and work with it. I'm looking forward to reading some of your work, Andrei!
Oh, I’d be honored! I’ve been wanting yo really get into your work for a while, but only now found the time. Your newsletter is wonderful. I can’t wait to read more.
I have missed you and your writing. Stress and busy-ness and a feeling of being a little too simple to engage with the highly intellectual and insightful folks here on Substack (of which you are the most prime example) led to a long break from reading or writing anything on this platform. This was the perfect reintroduction for me. As usual, I love every word. My soul feels stirred, my brain feels gently prodded into wakefulness, my heart feels tingly and curious💚
Hannah, it’s so lovely to see your name. I’ve missed you. I certainly hope to see you writing again, your writing is just as brilliant and insightful as anything else on here and I think the world needs your voice in it. I know life can get in the way of it all. I’ve been feeling that, too, hence the slower pace of things around here. But I think it’s worth it to get some words down when we can. Stories seem more important than ever, right now. I hope you and all your little ones are doing well 💜
Thank you so much, Chloe, that means a lot coming from you! My husband tries to tell me the same thing, but sometimes I think he's too biased to have a valid opinion on the matter haha. And I agree, stories are so important right now. Always and forever, but especially right now.
Listen to me and your husband! Haha, seriously though Hannah, if you feel moved I hope you get some words down. I certainly look forward to reading them, whenever you do.
You are just the kind of friend I have needed! 💚💚💚
New subscriber here. I was captivated by the title "Death and Birds" and just subscribed because the two things have occupied my random musings lately.
It seems that recent studies have indicated that many birds live far longer than previously thought (something I always suspected). While there is great diversity of species, each with its own characteristics, some, at least, don't age like mammals. The limitations on their lifespans are due to the fact that being a bird is dangerous business. To generalize, there's a fall-out rate of about 10% a year from flying accidents, disease, and predation - the leading causes of death among birds. If they avoid these things, some species can live 30, 50, 70, or even 100 years. Their capacity to reproduce doesn't seem to be affected, by age, either. Might this mean that, in some sense, they are immortal?
I know better, of course, but I kind of hoped so, and that is the child inside me, daydreaming and yearning for a secure place in the universe.
Danno, hello, thank you for joining, it's good to have you here. It's fascinating how little we really know about Birds, isn't it? It seems to be a bit of a trap of modern day, to fall into thinking that we've achieved peak knowledge, when that's far from the truth.
I don't know about immortality, I can't help but wonder if immortality might actually be something of a curse, but I certainly think that left to their own devices Birds can live extraordinary lives. I think we all inherently have a secure place in the universe, even when it doesn't feel like it...
Thank you again for being here, and for sharing some of your musings.
I wouldn't be surprised if birds are every bit as sentient as humans.
Oh, I have no doubt that they are.
I could just squish tiny you to pieces. Thank you for bringing her out to play. I love you.
You’re gonna get so squished. I love you my little ♥️
Defiant to the last breath, to live, not to conform. I had a similar experience but in my case it was a hamster and a few years later they built a street and the meadow was no more.
Thank you for reading, Alexander. It’s surprising how many people have had similar experiences. And yes, to live - not to conform!